Don’t know much about history 2 . . .

Posted on Mon, Jan. 18, 2010

Flag's relocation disappointed many

Confederate banner is off the dome but still a visible symbol

By WAYNE WASHINGTON
wwashington@thestate.com

The Confederate flag will be a lot closer to those who gather at the State House today for the 10th annual King Day at the Dome march and rally than it was for the first march.  

No longer is the flag atop the State House dome, where in 1962 it was raised as a gesture of defiance to those who would contemplate desegregation and racial equality.

Now, the flag flaps on a 30-foot pole near a Confederate monument on the State House grounds. It is more visible, and, for many South Carolinians, it still stands for the things it always stood for - white supremacy and slavery, or Southern heritage and pride.

The flag's current position is due in no small part to the more than 50,000 people who rallied on King Day a decade ago.

They commanded national and international attention. Their presence prodded reluctant lawmakers and the governor of South Carolina to do something, anything, to move ugly images of the state from the top of national newscasts.

"It was clear that it was not going away," former Gov. Jim Hodges said of the issue during a telephone interview last week. "It continued to be a front-burner issue. The rally reinforced that."

The sheer size of the turnout made a point, too.

"The rally reinforced the idea that a broad cross-section of South Carolinians wanted something done about it," said Hodges, a Democrat. "That was something missing before, the public aspect."

Hodges was governor, in part, because of the power of the flag.

His predecessor, Republican David Beasley, had angered some of his supporters by signaling a willingness to consider moving the flag from the State House dome. He then lost a close re-election battle to Hodges.

The success of the 2000 King Day rally opened new fronts in an age-old civil rights struggle. The rally showed the muscle of the NAACP, which played a major role in organizing the event. But its fallout eventually distanced that group from some rally supporters who reluctantly oppose the NAACP's boycott of the state because the Confederate flag continues to fly on State House grounds.

"At a point, when a majority of people don't like where you're going, it seems to make sense to stop and reassess," said Cynthia Hardy, a radio talk show host who helped organize the 2000 rally. "We do have to assess the methods we use to achieve our goals."

SCHISM FOLLOWED

State legislators who used the cudgel of the rally to hammer out the compromise that brought the flag down felt stung when NAACP officials not only rejected the deal, but also lashed out at them.

"The NAACP's resolution said take it down and put it in a place of historical context," said former state Sen. Kay Patterson, a Richland County Democrat who spent decades trying to persuade his colleagues to remove the flag from the dome and from the chambers and lobby of the State House.

"There was no talk about not putting it near the Confederate memorial," said Patterson. "Hell, you couldn't get a place with more historical context."

Patterson, like other legislators who wanted the flag down, pressed for the flag to be put in a museum or in some other less public place.

The King Day rally had generated momentum for that course.

"There was no will to do anything until that rally," said the Rev. Joseph Darby, a Charleston minister and a vice president of the NAACP at that time. "I hear some people say, 'We would have done something about it.'

"Yeah, right. Just like you were going to do something about segregation."

Charleston Mayor Joe Riley attempted to add to the momentum in April, when he led a 112-mile walk from his city to Columbia to press for the lowering of the flag.

"I felt it was important that a white political leader lead this march," he said. "This was being portrayed as black versus white in our state. I knew that was a misrepresentation."

But the flag still had important political backers, principally Republicans led by Senate President Pro Tempore Glenn McConnell, of Charleston.

Moving the flag from the dome and off the State House grounds was a non-starter, rally or no rally, legislators said.

"We didn't have the numbers to do what they want, bury the flag," state Sen. Robert Ford, D-Charleston, said of those who wanted the flag moved to a museum.

Hodges had tried for a different compromise - bringing the flag down and placing it near a statue of Confederate Lt. Gov. and S.C. Gov. Wade Hampton on the less visible south side of the State House.

The NAACP opposed that move.

"The flying of the Confederate flag sends the wrong message," Lonnie Randolph, state president of the NAACP, said in a recent interview. "This was to promote slavery. Us flying the flag on State House grounds says we want to bring those days back. Those days ain't coming back."

Hardy said she also was disappointed the deal to lower the flag did not put in a museum or a less visible location.

"It was a disappointing move," she said of the deal. "It felt empty and still does. (Legislators) said that's the best they could do.

"I was disappointed with the best they could do."

Hardy said friends from other states don't understand why the symbol still holds so much sway.

"My friends from around the country think we're from a mean state, that we don't respect the rights of other people," she said. "They think South Carolina is (an) oppressive place and that the oppressors don't mind waving the symbols of oppression."

'IT'S STILL IMPORTANT'

Despite the disappointment of not being able to get the flag off the State House grounds entirely, those who participated in the rally said it was still a watershed moment, one that should give today's marchers confidence that enough voices, speaking together, can be heard.

"In the years since the first rally, we have not had as many people," said Cynthia Hardy's husband, Jim Hardy IV. "But it's still a galvanizing point where people can come together and let their voice be heard.

"I think it's still important."

Comments

[Tyler]

I really don't see a debate. It is not a symbol of anything that is very important. The people who fly the flag do so because they want to represent their southern heritage. The people who don't want the flag flown feel that it represents something terrible that they want to forget.

In my view, if you just want to show your southern heritage, hunt with muskets...don't fly a flag that represents oppression for some people--justified or not.

[JohnEvans]

I don't understand how other peoples misunderstanding what a flag means requires it to be taken down. Like it or not South Carolina seceded and many brave men fought defending their homes, remember the North invade. Those men should be honored and having the flag the represents what they fought for honors them. On a side note, does anything get more racist then the NAACP? National Associations for the Advancement of Colored People??!!?? Really now. I thought we were beyond race issues. Shouldn't all people be advanced together? If you decided who you are going to help based on race, as the NAACP proudly does, you are a racist.

[Brandon]

John I agree when you say that the confederate flag represents the men who fought. But if you do not think the flag represents racism you should rethink that. Now on to the deal witht he NAACP. When a race has been held down for so long, and treated as second class citizens they need something to help them with their advancement. If you think we are past race issues you should also rethink that. If we were past racism there would be no need for the NAACP. From day one if colored people were being treated equally they wouldn't need help to be advanced.There would be no need to advance if everyone were equal.

[Tyler]

John--Your argument is wrong because you have definitions mixed up. That isn't racism, that is racial discrimination. The NAACP isn't a racist group. That is a huge problem in the south...people don't realize exactly what racism means.

The NAACP definitely discriminate...no doubt! Just look at their name! I completely agree with you that there should be no particular group that practices this type of discrimination. That's not the point though.

The point is when you read what I said about people not liking the flag for whatever reasons it stands for, you went straight to racism. I feel that simply for that reason the opposition to the flag is legitimate.

The defense for keeping it is because it isn't about race...then when a discussion occurs, the supporters of keeping it go straight to race.

[mgn]

I have lived in the south my entire life and the Confederate flag has always bothered me. Throughout history that flag has been waved too often in the name of evil. The Confederate flag quite often reminds me of the Swastika and how Hitler destroyed its true meaning when he decided to use it a symbol for the Nazis. I strongly agree with Tyler when he said to do something else to show your southern pride besides waving a flag which has mix feelings.

[quicktype89]

I agree with mgn! I thought the same thing about Swastikas and the Nazi pollution of its original peaceable meaning- "Until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck."
http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swastika/a/swastikahistory.htm

So putting that into context with what the confederate flag denotes today, and even then we can see that flying the flag is an act of selfish arrogance and pride in a souther culture of enslavement.

Just imagine flying a swastika at a concentration camp today, intending to represent life. If you were an outside viewer you'd see the flag and gasp because you'd think it was representing the Nazi party. Likewise the Confederate flag is seen as a flag of oppression and slavery so why wouldn't people view SC as an oppressive state where "the oppressors don't mind waving the symbols of oppression."

If we really want to celebrate southern culture and heritage we should learn about our traditions and indigenous peoples rather than concentrate on a piece of cloth that holds a memory of pain and suffering for a people.

[Morgan]

I did not even know that the confederate flag was allowed to fly at any government facility. I agree with the article that the flag is an ugly memory in the state's history that is all about white supremacy and needs to be put in the past.

[Scarecrowe]

from KATIE

This is quite the issue. I don't understand what you mean, Tyler when you
say there is no debate. I think the debate is the flag. In and of itself.
The fact that it is flown offends many citizens of South Carolina and all
across America, especially in the south. I am from Florida and have also
grown up seeing the Confederate flag all over. Its on the back of trucks,
waving on poles in front yards and oddly enough, tattooed on bodies. I
think the real issue is not the actual flying of the flag, but what it
represents and by it being flown it is something to be 'proud of'. John, I
get that men fought and that it is respect for them, but when something
has turned into such a fashion statement rather than respect, it makes a
difference, I think.
The NAACP is an organization to help break the barriers and racial hatred
of all citizens. If you visit their website, you can learn more about it.
Here is the main mission for the NAACP: "The mission of the National
Association for the Advancement of Colored People is to ensure the
political, educational, social, and economic equality of rights of all
persons and to eliminate racial hatred and racial discrimination." After
learning more about this association, I do not think they discriminate.
And please, if you don't think that this Association is needed any longer,
or that racism or discrimination is no longer a big deal, read up on the
Justice of Jena, Louisiana. The NAACP has helped so many Americans fight
for justice, freedom and equality. These are things Americans should be
proud of and flying a flag for.

[Scarecrowe]

from JOHN —

To Tyler "The point is when you read what I said about people not liking
the flag for whatever reasons it stands for, you went straight to racism.
I feel that simply for that reason the opposition to the flag is
legitimate." My statements about race were a comment on the NAACP not
responding to you. A discussion of the NAACP requires the discussion of
race.

To mgn and qt89 The difference between the the Swastikas and "Confederate
Flag" is that the Germans committed horrendous acts of genocide and
torture. The Confederate States of America were actually progressive
towards race. The Confederate armed force, which did have soldiers of all
races back white asian and native american, had integrated units, officers
of all races and gave soldiers of all races equal pay and supplies. This
is at the time when the union army had segregated units payed blacks 10
dollars a day instead of 12 I think is the exact figure. and didn't allow
black officers. To reinforce this point white men in the confederacy
fought under black officers.

As to my point about NAACP, firstly blacks are now equal before the law.
The battle is not yet won in the mind of every american but it is just a
matter of time and personal experience to bring the rest around thus we do
not need an NAACP. Furthermore how does this issue in any way advance
colored people. All this does is bring down people of all races who fought
for the confederacy.

Lastly let me state I am not happy with that flag flying on the capital
grounds. It should be replaced by real confederate flags such as the
stained banner or real stars and bars. These flags are the flags the men
fought under and have been usurped less by raciest.